harry truman did it for herbert hoover. maybe this president could do it for mitt romney. it would set the right tone for the last term. that's what i care about. some common ground out there is going to be the story of the next coming weeks. can they or can't they? that's "hardball" for now. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, mr. romney comes to washington but republicans still don't understand why he lost. the white house released this photo of governor romney and president obama in the oval office. this photo taken the day after their big lunch. through the door, you can see the private dining room where they shared a lunch of turkey chili and southwestern grilled salad and right behind the second-place finisher is the presidential race.

you can see the desk that belonged to president kennedy. it's the desk he thought he'd be sitting at. the white house says the lunch was friendly. mr. romney congratulated the president on his victory and wished him well over the next four years. they also talked about america's leadership in the world and promised to stay in touch. before romney went to the white house, he met up for breakfast with his old pal paul ryan. >> mr. romney, how was your meeting with mr. romney today? was it nice to see him? >> good friend. great to be with him. >> always great to see paul ryan. >> sure. always great to see him. and chat about the irony of their getting only 47% of the vote. how fitting. but the fact is, even now many republicans don't get why they were rejected by the american people. this morning, as romney was

getting ready for his big day in washington, his top political strategist was on national tv talking about why he lost. >> i certainly don't think it was the ideas. i think that the ideas carried the day for us and the success that we had, though it obviously wasn't enough to win the race, was based on the candidate mitt romney and on his ideas. >> the ideas carried the day? what is he talking about? those ideas are why romney came in second place. this election was a rejection of the policies romney stood for. but too many republicans just don't get it. right now we have incredibly important issues to deal with, on tacks, jobs, immigration, marriage equality. but how account country move forward if the gop is still stuck with the ideas of the past? joining me now is richard wolffe, vice president and

executive editor of msnbc.com and karen finney, msnbc political analyst and former dnc communications director. richard, let me go to you first. i want to talk about this lunch at the white house. it's pretty unlikely we'll ever see mr. romney enjoy joining the obama administration, sbt it? >> based on the readout that we got from that meeting, i would say so. they talked about where there might be said interests, maybe that's why they talked about america's role in the world by all of the reports. you know, if you cannot agree on any of the fundamentals about what america is, what the common ground is from that election and you heard stewart stevens, there's one thing to not believe the polls beforehand but you've got to believe the poms afterwards. there is no common ground here. if governor romney had taken a different position about health care, maybe there could have been common ground at this

point. he ran away from the very policy that the president embraced. he ran away from his own record. >> usually when people say, we'll stay in touch, that means they are not going to be talking often. >> exactly. >> but karen, the republicans seemed reluctant to talk about the luncheon but senator reid seemed to be pretty happy to talk about it. let me show what you he said. >> i think this is great. none of us here have any ill will towards mitt romney. we were involved in a campaign. it's over with. i'm very happy to see this picture. it's good for the american people. >> karen, it is good for the american people, especially since the election turned out the way it did. >> yeah. it is. although, i think most of us know that when you say we promise we'll keep in touch, that's when a guy says, i'll call you, you're not going to be sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring. but this is an important part of our democracy. there were obviously huge

disagreements about the way forward but the fact that at the end of the day people can come together, break bread, i would have loved to have been in the room for that conversation, of course. but, yeah, i think it sends a positive message to the american people and to the rest of the world that this is a part of our process and now we move on. although ironically i feel like the rest of the republican party is suffering from romnesia. they are still trying to adjudicate the same policy ideas. >> that's the point, richard. because when you look at the polls, the exit polls from the election day and look at the polls of the american people, how do we move on when they still are in denial as to what the american people said? 60% said income tax rates should be raised. >> right. >> 55% said the economic system favors the wealthy.

65% legal status for illegal immigrant. 59% said abortion should be legal. and they are still saying that their ideas carried the day? >> stewart stevens has written a lot of good fiction and another life he writes books and they are kind of good. but if you just slice off a piece of the electorate that we won, then we won those ideas, that doesn't make any sense and it's not actually -- look, we can take a step back and say, what is right for the country? but republicans first have to say what is right for republicans? if republicans want to win these kinds of elections, they have to appeal to more people, not what stewart stevens said, which is somehow the liberal coalition turned into a strength. as if they are still playing the argument that this guy is a fluke. the president is a remarkable coincidence of fate. the republican party will never

find the majority of the republican party again. >> karen, not a fluke. let me tell you, president obama won bigger than bush was re-elected in 2004. >> that's right. >> they keep talking about a close election. in 2012, this year, president obama received 50.9% of the vote. mr. bush only received 50.7. so president obama was re-elected by a wider margin than george bush was. some fluke. but then you have strategist stewart stevens even defending romney's claim that president obama used gifts to win the election. listen to this, karen. >> i don't think that's what he was saying. i think he was saying that there's an effort that the incumbent used, as many other incumbents have used, to reach

out to constituents. that's something that we've seen in politics going back to a long time. they did it effectively and they have certain groups that they wanted to do well with and they did well. >> that's utterly nonsense. that's intelligence of the public. he was not talking about the traditional way. he was saying, as they said throughout the campaign, he was giving things away, handouts, which was an insult to the president and to those constituent groups and the fact is that people voted based on the president's record and his ideas and he got a larger margin. in fact, he will probably go to 51% of the electorate. >> i actually wrote about this for msnbc.com last week. this is part of the delusion of the republican party. this is why they have more than just a single cycle problem.

i think they have a much longer term problem in that they refuse to accept america as it currently is right now. and that includes the diversity of this country, not just regional ethnic diversity but also the issue landscape. the polling numbers that you showed have changed. the republican party is still -- you can just today even on capitol hill, again, they are singing from the old sheet of music trying to convince americans that their way is still the right way and refusing to see that america has pretty much moved on. we've already said, no, we don't want that. now we want to move forward. so i think long term they have a problem and it's not going to be fixed by talking points. i think they are going to have to do real work and decide whether or not they can accept whether or not america is becoming a majority/minority country. millenials have a very different view point of the world and if they continue on this path with messages that cater only to

white men and don't accept this country as it is, they are going to basically, you know, will themselves out of relevance. look at the choices that they made in the house for their chairmanships. all white men. that doesn't say we learned a lesson from the election. >> no doubt about it. richard wolffe and karen finney, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks, rev. coming up, what in the world is going on with speaker boehner? he went off his own cliff today. we'll tell you why he's ready to hold the economy hostage again. and what's really behind john mccain's relentless and baseless attack on susan rice? former governor of new mexico and ambassador to the u.n., bill richardson, joins us live. plus, remember this guy with the romney tattoo? he might just be the smartest man in the republican party today. and we'll tell you what joe biden bought at costco today. you'll love this video.

you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. this is interesting. president obama is going to have lunch with mitt romney and you thought you had an awkward meal with your family on thanks giving. what i don't get is he said nobody should get a free lunch and now he's going to the white house to have a free lunch. [ male announcer ] with 160 more miles per tank, the distances aren't getting shorter. ♪ the trucks are going farther. the new 2013 ram 1500. ♪ with the best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ guts. glory. ram.

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and now, something extra -- for you. have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. president obama and romney's white house lunch was the topic of the day. charmaine says, it's great that they can meet.

syed said, this is an awesome display of shake of hands of bipartisan relations. we hope. it didn't take long for the photo shoppers to make their own colorful edits to the picture. we can only imagine what big bird would have said to these two. weapon want to hear what you think about the lunch or anything that's on your mind. head over to "politicsnation" and "like" us to join the conversation that's going on long after the show ends. [ male announcer ] introducing...

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american people made a statement. they want cooperation. they want a government that works. the message was resoundingly clear but speaker boehner didn't hear it. for the second time in as many years, he's stomping his feet, threatening to hold the economy hostage if he doesn't get what he wants in the tax fight. >> as i told the president a couple of of weeks ago, there are a lot of things i've wanted in my life but almost all of them have had a price tag attached to them. and if we're going to talk about the debt limit in this, be there's going to be some price tag associated with it. >> is he kidding? note to speaker boehner, you lost and now he's willing to hold the debt ceiling hostage again? willing to downgrade this country's rating again? willing to risk our recovery again. all to help the top 2%. it's flat out irresponsible. so what about those entitlement

cuts? >> it's time for the president, congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they are really willing to make. >> what? he wants the democrats to outline those? he's a man calling for the cuts, right? >> speaker boehner, why would you not tell democrats what specific spending cuts you would like to see, especially within entitlements. >> it's been very clear over the last year and a half. i've talked to the president about many of them. i'm not going to get into the details. >> i'm not going to get into the details. how is that leadership coming from a man who repeatedly hypocrite clee slams the white house? >> the president doesn't need a victory lap. it needs leadership. >> the country needs leadership?

then why don't you show some? why don't you outline solutions instead of just asking for them? there's a disconnect all right. one that senator harry reid summed up best today. >> speaker boehner made very clear at his press conference that he thinks the ball is in your court. where's the disconnection? >> i don't understand his brain so you should ask him. >> i don't understand his brain either but he needs to get in the game for the good of the country. joining me now is chris van hollen, democrat from maryland. he was in the democratic leadership meeting with secretary geithner this meeting. congressman, thank you for your time tonight. >> reverend, good to be with you. >> congressman, you were in the meeting on the hill today. the white house wants $1.6 trillion in tax increase, 50

billion in economic stimulus and new power for the president to raise the debt limit without congressional approval. what can you tell us about that? >> well, first of all, secretary geithner on behalf of the president had two meetings on the house side. one with the republican leaders and one with democratic leaders. you're right, secretary geithner laid out key provisions. many of these are in the president's budget. if the republicans look carefully at the budget, it has called for a jobs plan that includes $50 billion of investment and that's part of a plan that would also immediately extend tax cuts to 98% of the people. the president has said we need $1.6 trillion in revenue as part of a long-term deficit reduction. if we don't ask higher income

people to pay more, we're going to have to take it out on everybody else and the president is clear, you cannot continue to play political gains with the full faith and credit of the united states debt and so that was all part of the plan the president has put forward. >> now, with all of the talk of divide, politico is, however, reporting that there is some framework of a deal already taking shape. let me give you what they are saying. and the piece says, there is no chance taxes are not going to go up for people making north of $250,000 and virtually no chance that doesn't include their tax rates, too. is there a framework of a deal that you believe we can come together or are we still very much divided in terms of parties in the congress? >> well, i think it's premature to say that there's a deal in place. even the framework of a deal in

place. but i agree with the politico reporting to the extent they concluded that higher income individuals are going to be paying more and that tax rates have to go up. because the math doesn't work from a deficit reduction perspective unless you have those rates go up. so that's certainly the position the president is taking, as you know. some members of speaker boehner's republican caucus have also called for the same thing because they recognize that it's totally unsustainable to be saying to the american people that nobody is going to get tax relief until you get this big bonus tax break to very high-income individuals. >> the leverage has changed considerably since 2010. i mean, when you look at the fact that every day it seem like more and more republicans are admitting that they will have to give on tax increases. nebraskan congressman lee terry,

look what he says, we are screwed either way. we really have no leverage in these discussions. it's a new day. >> well, it is a new day. one, the american people spoke very loudly and clearly in the election. it's not like this was all a secret issue. the president was very clear about how he wanted to tackle our jobs challenge as well as the long-term deficit. the exit poll shows that people supported them and it's interesting, reverend al, to hear republicans come pain about the president wanting to include the american people in this conversation. it's as if they are afraid that the american people will clearly understand what the president is calling for and the obstacles republicans are presenting. so, you know, the president is talking to congress mall leaders. it's very important that we engage the american people in this conversation because it's our future, our collective future of the country is at stake. >> the problem is, when you include the american people you

have to come up with some logic that doesn't sound too logical. listen, senator mike lee, how he tried to give some twisted rationale as to what we face in terms of why saving taxes for the rich might be reasonable. listen to this. >> people need to understand that the reason we worry about raising taxes on anyone, even raising taxes on the rich, is that it's not that we're looking out for the rich. it's not that we're concerned that the rich won't be able to fend for themselves. they will. we worry about the consequences that will inevitably result from that action and that will hit the poorest among us the hardest. >> so we don't want to raise tax on the rich because it will hurt the poor? really? >> well, you know what, that theory has been tested by reality, right? we had the big tax breaks for wealthy americans from 2000 to 2008. what happened at the end of that

period? jobs went down, the deficit went up. we also know, reverend al, from the nonpartisan congressional office, that those tax breaks for the very wealthy people have virtually no impact on jobs and economic growth and that the proposals the president has made, both the middle class tax extension, plus his small business tax cut, taken together do a lot more than you would get in terms of job growth from providing the folks at the very top with this bonus tax break. so you've got to look at the president's entire plan, both the investment in our infrastructure as well as middle class tax relief and small business tax relief and that is the jobs plan for the future and no matter what republicans say, the reality is that at the end of the day they are looking out for the folks at the very top. we know from our own history. >> yeah. >> that history is bankrupt. >> and these are things we need. if you look at what hurricane

did to new york and new jersey, we certainly need to work on the infrastructure. congressman chris van hollen, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. great to be with you. coming up, republicans are now hammering susan rice for old news that went back 14 years. we'll talk live to former u.n. ambassador bill richardson about how susan rice can survive these attacks. and one republican candidate now blowing the whistle on unfair gop politic. we're listening. are republicans? stay with us. ♪

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arizona's notorious sheriff joe arpaio wants to set things straight when it comes to his lousy record on diversity and civil rights. arpaio told the arizona republic he can, quote, get along great with the hispanics. the hispanics? not exactly spreading the love. here's what arpaio said after winning re-election despite an aggressively challenge from a latino activist. >> i would hope to get together with the latino community if i could ever have them talk to me without screaming and threatening me. >> let the charm offenser begin.

arpaio's long and ugly history of getting together with the latino community includes a justice department lawsuit accusing him of racial profiling, lawsuits linked to alleged civil rights violations, and the death of a prisoner while in custody. and recently saying he'll arm deputies with automatic weapons so they can hunt down suspected and undocumented immigrants. arpaio says now, quote, i sure would like to meet with latino community leaders, in the backroom or whatever, have a couple of beers and try to explain. meet in the backroom? a couple of beers? does arpaio really think a happy hour can erase his offensive record? not even a nice try, sheriff joe. but we got you. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem,

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but one really got his face out there. i'm talking about this young man. his name is eric hartsburg. he's such a big romney fan he wanted everyone to know it. look at that beautte. the tattoo is coming off. he thinks romney is a sore looser with those gift comments. here's what he told politico. he's pretty shameful as far as i'm concerned. man, there's no dignity in blaming somebody else for buying votes and paying off people. i can't get behind that or stay behind that. and it's not just the tattoo man. jon huntsman told the gop primary barriers to quote, to entry were pretty damn low.

mike murphy says, we repel latino, the fattest growing voter group in the country, with our nativist opposition to immigration reform that offers a path to citizenship. we repel younger voters, who are much more secular than our parents, with our opposition to same-sex marriage and our skolding tone on social issues. and we have lost much of our once solid connection to the middle class on kitchen-table economic issues. he's right. the gop is too busy fighting to listen. joining me now is the host of the cycle on msnbc and erin mcpike, national political reporter for real clear politics. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> you look great, by the way. great outfit. >> well, we've both got on black

suits, white shirts. we're going out as the blues brothers. but let me ask you, since election night, this has been a gop partying crisis. >> absolutely. >> where do you see it going? >> heading directly toward losing in 2016. one of the two big issues is the fiscal cliff where, once again, they are the party of the wealthy defending the 2% against getting a tax cut. maybe they will have to get into it eventually. but there are going to be weeks and weeks before they give into them of defending the wealthy. not a good look. and what's the other big story of the week? susan rice, where they are wrongfully attacking a person who has done nothing wrong. they are not searching for answers. they are searching for demonizing a black person. who has done nothing wrong. it doesn't look good and pushes blacks and women to say this party doesn't represent me in

any way. plus, what's the other big issue that they need to get around on? immigration. issues that matter to latinos. are they doing anything positive? not repels latinos, as mike murphy said. no, they don't. they don't even discuss the issues going forward. i think the party is looking exactly where it was right before they lost. >> and i don't think anyone is calling anyone racist. i think you are really playing to your weaknesses when you only attack susan rice. some of those who directly were responsible for the consulate that you're not talking about at all. >> if you want to talk about hillary clinton who is the secretary of state. >> or petraeus. >> or petraeus or anyone else in the intelligence community. they are the reason why susan rice's presentation was the way it was. >> let me ask you, erin, you covered the campaign. and i want to tell you more about jon huntsman's criticism of his party. here's what he said about his

primary contenders. and i'm quoting here. i looked down the debate stage and half of them were probably on fox contracts at one point in their career. you do that. you write some books, you go out and sell some more and get a radio gig or something out of it. you say to yourself, the barriers of entry to this game are pretty damn low. this is huntsman talking about his fellow primary contenders. >> yeah. well, that was not a surprise, you know, last year. in 2011, many people were saying at that point that the republican primary field was very weak. now, republicans going forward feel a little bit better about 2016 because they think that they have a very strong primary field. but it isn't any big secret that that field was very weak. >> but erin, you know, they said we have a strong bench. we have a strong team. but the primary is focused on

appealing to voters at the extremes and you can't do that in the current climate when the republican party -- >> that's his point. the point is, they deal in he can treems for a lot of reasons and i think that if we continue to hear the same rhetoric and policies, it doesn't matter how prestigious or how much stature the bench has. if it the same policies, it's not going anywhere. >> ultimately it's going to be a person with an r after their name. you have to go through that mountain to get there and you have to go so extreme to get that that it's going to be hard to come back to becoming a moderate person who thinks things that the vast majority of people can stomach to be thought. >> erin, when you look at the fact that they lost african-american voters, 87%, hispanics, 44%, single women by 36%, how do they turn that around no matter who they have on that bench, how do they turn that around unless they start

dealing differently with positions and policies that they have to vehemently support in their primaries? >> i think we're hearing that they are doing a lot of soul searching, on the political side of things, strategists are saying that they need to change the structure and to some degree of the primary. one example of that is the straw poll in iowa, which is a really big show. they want to get rid of that. they want to change some things. the other thing on the policy side is i've talked to a lot of republicans who say that they think comprehensive immigration reform will be done next year and there won't be a ton of fireworks because they know that they need to seed some -- or to make some concessions there and change their rhetoric as far as latinos are concerned. >> well, i mean, this isn't the first time we've heard this, moderate pundits and strategists

in the gop frustrated by extremists like rush limbaugh. we've heard this before. let me show you. >> we cannot be coward by them. when they say things that are culturally insensitive and spup pid stupid, we can't stand for that. tell them to knock it off. >> whoever is conservative should not be confined with whoever agrees with the outrageousness of these talk radio show hosts. enough is enough. >> they have been lied to by the entertainment complex. >> the question is, can those moderate voices dominate the party and can they surface a candidate or candidates that can get through the primary? >> i don't know. we will have to see. but we have an ecosystem where you have these talk radio voices that fill the masses or the he

can treem masses of textreme ma gops, of blacks, single women, latinos especially, and they take those ideas and believe in them and it's a reality bubble where facts can't survive in that bubble. so the electorate is getting filled with that stuff. and when you have moderate candidates, like a jon huntsman who is an adult, a reasonable thinking person, they cannot survive in that primary atmosphere and you get people who cannot win in a general. look, do not forget, they have lost five out of six consecutive popular votes. when is the last time they won a popular vote? >> five out of six, erin, they have lost. and they only have 38% of the approval of the republican party. that's down seven points since the election. they are going south in term of support. not up, erin. and they lost five of the last six national elections. they lost to popular vote.

>> yeah. look, that is not lost on many republicans in washington. they know that. now, what i don't think that we're going to see is the republican party moderating. they don't want to do that. what it's going to be is, if there is a change, some sort of shift in the next four years with the republican party, it's going to be about a different emphasis of issue. they may not emphasis social issues so they can talk about fiscal issues and we do see that americans are, in some respects, more fiscally conservative than republicans are. if there's a shift, that's what it will have to be. >> i'm going to have to leave it there. toure and erin mcpike, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> don't forget to catch toure on "the psycycle" here on msnbc 3:00 p.m. vice president biden went to

costco and the crowd loved it. that's coming up. why the smearing of susan rice? what is behind it? bill richardson, former governor of new mexico and former ambassador to the united nations joins me on that. >> secretary of state is not qualified. >> senator john mccain considering his seven-year quest to negate anything good he had done prior to that. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help

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vice president joe biden is known as regular joe, the guy who connects with average americans. one reason, he loves a holiday bargain. here he is at the grand opening of costco in washington, d.c. he hit the aisles and it was classic joe biden. even if the shopping spree started a bit rough. >> i didn't have my own card. i went to get my wife's card and she said, no, you get your own. >> he just reactivated his costco card yesterday and good for him because he was ready for some shopping. the first stop was for cookies. where he met a friend.

>> hey. all right, man. army strong. >> as long as it's not blueberry pie, mr. vice president. so let's see what he bought today. he picked up some children's book for his grandchildren, very nice. and some apple pie. not my favorite but to each his own. and a nice 32-inch panasonic television. i know that's for watching "politicsnation." but he didn't pick up any of mitt romney's favorite shirts.

one, to encourage spending and, two, costco is a shining example. a lot of american companies should treat their workers, especially at a time when other stores are taking advantage of them. the co-founder and former ceo made it a priority to take care of his employees. the average pay is $17 an hour. 42% higher than rival. they receive full benefits. he earned less than $500,000 last year as ceo. that's no malarkey. that's the kind of business we should support. ♪

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keep dreaming. keep doing. go long. (announcer) when subaru owners look in the mirror, they see more than themselves. so we celebrate our year-end with the "share the love" event. get a great deal on a new subaru and 250 dollars goes to your choice of five charities. by the end of this, our fifth year, our total can reach almost 25 million dollars. it's a nice reflection on us all. now through january 2nd. this week, republicans sank to a new low in their attacks on u.n. ambassador susan rice. but the ongoing question is why? joining me now is bill

richardson, ambassador to the united nations from 1997 to 1998. he's also the former governor of new mexico. governor, thanks for being here tonight. >> nice to be with you, reverend. >> now, you've been in politics a long time. can you explain what mccain is is up to with these attacks? >> well, obviously the political season is on. it's unfortunate. i mean, the issue here is this. one, the president of the united states has a right to name their secretary of state. this is traditionally always been given by the senate to the president. there's never any debate. secondly, is susan rice qualified? she certainly is. she's worked on african issues, a road scholar, as u.n. ambassador she's been the one that tightened the sanctions on libya, on north korea. she's articulate. she knows the issues. she's a very hard worker.

that's the issue, reverend. and if the president wants to nominate her secretary of state, we should just put the politics aside. she didn't know about this benghazi issue. so -- >> that's what i want to get to. they are accusing her of giving bad information. but so has senator mccain and graham. watch this, governor. >> i believe that suddam hussein presents clear and present danger to acquire weapons of mass destruction and there's very little doubt that he would use them. we're going to find weapons of mass destruction and we're going to find incredible brew tal teas that this dictator has inflicted on the iraqi people. >> he has weapons of mass destruction. he is lying when he says he doesn't. >> now, this led up to the iraq war. both of them saying there were weapons of mass destruction that

wasn't there. these are the people that are now trying to say that susan rice gave bad information when she gave information that she was given by intelligence. >> you know, reverend, i held the job susan did, as you mentioned. and we would get, whenever we would go on a news show, an intelligence briefing or piece of paper that gave you the guidance that you had on an event overseas. susan was following that guidance and she did it very well. she did it on news shows. and to suggest that she was misleading the american people when, as you know, she's at the u.n. working in the security council in new york. by the way, i remember, governor, when i was u.n. ambassador, i gave you a reception at the u.n. mission. >> i remember that. >> the reason i raise that, this is a new york job but it's in

the cabinet. so you're not, you know, a security officer in benghazi. you are u.n. ambassador for close to 200 countries and susan has done an admirable job. >> now, you also have senator susan collins accuse susan rice of taking a political role when she went on those sunday shows you just referred to. but why did anyone accuse condoleeza rice of being political in 2004 when she appeared on abc one month before the 2004 election and in that appearance she called bush a strong leader and she was appearing as the national security adviser. all over the place they are using different standards which clearly goes back to your point of, this is politics. this clearly can't be positions that they believe are practiced. >> that's right. and reverend, a urk .n. ambassa,

secretary of state, they don't get into domestic politics. but when there's an extra nation on foreign policy to the american people, they do go on news shows. i used to go on news shows. susan rice has been on other news shows besides those five. they are the chief foreign policy spokesman for theed a handwriting. to suggest not to go on news shows because that's political is just not part of precedent and it's wrong. i think senator collins is -- i know her. i think she's trying to do the best job she can. but to say not to go on those news shows, that doesn't really jive. >> let me ask you one other thing, governor, about senator collins. she wants susan rice to explain her role in the bombings in africa, tanzania and kenya in

1998. you were the ambassador in 1998. did susan rice have any oversight or any authority at all that dealt with those embassies in kenya and tanzania that she would have to explain? >> no. she is not a homeland security officer. at the time, she was assistant secretary of africa on policy. she was making policy towards sudan, towards kenya, towards south africa. an excellent policymaker but she was not in charge of embassy security. that's diplomatic security and other entities that, unfortunately, we had that tragedy. she wasn't in charge of the buildings in our embassy. >> all right. i'm going to have to leave it there.